Jack Kumar: Do you have a set format? Sean Floyd: Yeah. Very strict format. Jack Kumar: What questions are you going to ask? Sean Floyd: No questions at all. The jazz pots. Jack Kumar: Five, four, three, two, one, go. Sean Floyd: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome on board to another episode of Prosperity Point. Jack, it's an absolute pleasure to have you, mate. Jack Kumar: Same here. Thank you, Sean. Sean Floyd: And I'll be honest. I had a lot of fun with you doing our first ever podcast, which was for our 10 year anniversary, right? That's what we had launched Prosperity Point on. Jack Kumar: That's right. Sean Floyd: That was a little bit about reminiscing about the past, looking forward into the future. Jack Kumar: That's correct. It was all about past and vision. Sean Floyd: Yeah, exactly. And I'm sure that we'll have more vision talks because I think one of the things we're going to be talking about is manifesting in the future and how that helps a lot in your success, right? Jack Kumar: Yes. Sean Floyd: Today, however, is a little bit more reality based, which is what can we control today to make our lives tomorrow better? Jack Kumar: That's right. Sean Floyd: So it's all about proper management of money, financial discipline, what are the steps that people can take to actually go ahead. I'll just probably give everyone some context as well. When we're doing a lot of investment planning for our clients, which you're well aware of, you've been doing it for more than 10 years now, we always ask people these sorts of questions that seem very basic, but are very hard to answer, right? Jack Kumar: Yes. Sean Floyd: It goes back to the same thing before we talked about, which is the things that are easy to do and the things that are easy not to do as well. So the simple question is how much can you save per month? And people struggle answering this question probably I would say 95% of the time. At least nine out of 10 clients that I meet always struggle to answer this. What do you think the reason is for that? Jack Kumar: I think I haven't seen anyone taking their time, sitting down and saying, "Yeah, I have done my budgeting." Maybe one in a hundred. Yes, you have come across those smart client who have already budgeted it. I think the biggest reason I always think is they know money is important, but no one gives as important to the money. What I mean by that is, let me explain. Once Zig Zagler, he said- Sean Floyd: Zig Ziglar, you're talking about the author and coach. Jack Kumar: Author and coach, Zig Ziglar. Once he said that money is not everything, but it's reasonably important. Money's not everything but it's reasonably important, similar as oxygen. What I mean by that is when day to day life... I have a recent example. Sean Floyd: Yeah, please do share. Jack Kumar: Yeah. I love sharing stories. And this is a story from my personal life, one of my families home in India. And during this COVID hit, one of the families, the husband got sick, they got hit with the COVID. And I was literally surprised to hear that they were not worried about the COVID illness or sickness, they were more worried about how are we going to pay the hospital bill? Sean Floyd: So they had to pay for the hospital bills back home in India from their pocket? Jack Kumar: From their pocket. Sean Floyd: It's not like how we have it here. Jack Kumar: No. So in the private hospitals, so you have to pay everything. And this is a middle-class family. They live a nice life, they go on holidays, they celebrate and all that. And when you look from outside, you said, "Wow, I've always thought they are a nice family. They laugh, middle-class." But I realized that this is a big disease we have that we never sit down and do budgeting. And if I were to do a budgeting for them, I'm sure I would find out that they would earn a dollar and they spend $1.20. Sean Floyd: Makes sense. Right. Jack Kumar: And that when a situation hits, they panic because the biggest thing is [inaudible 00:04:20] is close to oxygen. It's reasonably close to oxygen. They were not worried about the sickness, but they were more worried about how are we going to pay the hospital bill. So I see that when you sit down with clients and they don't do budgeting. No point of talking for future if we cannot control our today, if we cannot manage today well. Sean Floyd: Yeah. And I suppose when you're talking about budgets as well, is it because it's just boring? Do you think that's why a lot of people don't bother getting into the nitty gritty? Because I think budgeting, simple as the other goals we have... We talk a lot about having smart goals, right? Jack Kumar: Yes. Sean Floyd: Smart goals are your specific, measurable, attainable, so forth, so on. And when you've got a goal to, let's say, maybe lose weight, some people just say, "I want to be fit." But unless you define what that fitness is or what fit looks like to you, then how would you actually get yourself on track to achieving it? Same way with budgeting. People have an idea in their mind, but I don't think it's written down or tracked. So what do you think the motivating pull is to get someone... Because we know that 95% of people don't budget anyway. They just have the budget in their minds and then worst case, some people have no clue as well what they're doing with their money. So what do you think motivates people to actually set something up disciplined and give themselves that clarity to know what they can set aside? Jack Kumar: Again, there's a different motivation for different people. But I think knowing the reality is important. Sitting down, pausing yourself and saying, "If I keep doing what I'm doing right now, where would I end up in 10 years time?" Or other way to look at is, "I've been working hard for last 10 years and I still struggle to have enough money. So where the hell I'm doing wrong?" Because most people I know, they're hard workers. They work hard. There is no doubt that they're lazy. They maintain their lifestyle, they do everything. But even after working for 15, 20 years, they still cannot see, they still have the fear of not having enough money when they retire. So we can learn from the past and see where the hell I'm doing wrong. So either you can be motivated, so learning from the past. Or you could be motivated by creating a wonderful future. Sean Floyd: I think that's what we're wired like. Jack Kumar: Yeah. Sean Floyd: We're more futuristic that way. Jack Kumar: Yeah. We both have that strength of thinking futuristic, living in the future. But we can learn from both. So if someone is say we are driven by fear or we are driven by a gain. If you're driven by gain, then you think about future, sit down and say, "How do I want to see my future look like?" And if you are driven by fear, then you look back and say, "Mate, if I keep doing what I'm doing right now, where the hell I'm going to end up?" And it's very predictable. If you are young, energetic, you worked hard and you are in those 50s or 40s and you still cannot see your future... I think the future is very predictable then because after 40, we start deteriorating. Our energy level goes on, our priority changes. We see that now we have to spend more time with family. So if we can't do then, that means now is a time to sit down and take a time for yourself to budget. Sean Floyd: Yeah. And budgeting is just simply clarity. So it's about tracking certain things. For example, if we know what we're able to set aside, we'll be able to track with a high level of accuracy how fast we can pay off certain assets as well, pay off certain debts, how fast you can be mortgage free. A lot of people have this wishful thinking. I'll share my own example. So my father's example of wishful thinking. Even though he's extremely a hard worker, probably works 10 times harder than I do, but that's where I get my work ethic from. He used to say things like we'll be mortgage free in five years in the air. And then I used to always go back and say, yes, even though I'm a bigger dreamer than he was, I would say, "Okay, how would you do that? What's the plan." Sean Floyd: And there was no plan. And I'd say, "So let's break it down into per month. Here's what we need to do to be mortgage-free in five years, for example." But people don't bother making the plan in terms of what's the step-by-step approach. They just declare something and then halfway through, you have two choices. You either give up or you try again. So I think budgeting plays that important role where it gives you clarity to actually map out your own personal freedoms. At the end of the day, it's about... Some people, I feel have the mindset where "I don't earn enough so there's no point worrying about it. I've just got my future sorted." But I've seen- Jack Kumar: Same thing, Sean, it goes with the people who earn more as well. They say, "I earn enough. I don't have to worry about the future." So they spend everything off. And there are people who earn less and they think "I don't earn enough so I don't need to budget." So both people fall into the same trap. Sean Floyd: And the truth is, it's not about how much you make. It's only about how much you keep- Jack Kumar: How much you keep. Sean Floyd: ... and what you do with it. And I feel like that goes back to what we were talking a little bit about last time, which is it's about what we can control. If we can't control external circumstances about, "I don't know what my job is going to be 10 years from now." Lately, I've been working with a lot of people that are planning out their investment journeys. And they're saying we might be in a completely different industry five years from now. So half of these plans, they might disappear. And then my response to that is... Well, what would you say, for example? Let's say we've worked out a great investment strategy. This looks good for the next 10 years and I'm happy. But Jack, my whole industry is going to change in the next five years, I might not even have a job. So what's the point of doing this plan? Jack Kumar: That's a very interesting thing. I would say you set up a destination, but you need to reach it all the time. What I mean by that, if you want to go to west and you don't check that if you're heading on the right direction, do a planning. What I would say is check on it every year. Like a GPS. If you miss a turn... Like last week, I was driving from Sydney to Bella Vista and I missed a turn from Chatswood. And if I didn't have the GPS on, it would have taken me ever to reach there because I would have gone outside and then coming back to the highway would have been... Yeah, I would have reached, but it would have been delayed. Jack Kumar: So the GPS only helps you that, okay, you missed the exit, but there is another way, you can turn a U-turn, come back and you can catch the highway again and you can be on track again. So similarly, if you have a goal, setting up is important. But in the middle, if you missed that exit and something happens, you still know the GPS, the mental GPS will keep you back into track. But if you don't have a mental GPS set, if you miss a track, you'll keep running toward south where it's supposed to go on the west. Sean Floyd: That's right. And I feel that's why accountability with your circle and accountability with who you set up these goals with is super important, right? Jack Kumar: Yes. Sean Floyd: A lot of people don't even have relationships with their accountant. When we ask people, "Do you have an accountant?" They say, "Yeah, I've got an accountant." And I say, "Okay, well, what do you do with the accountant? How often do you catch up with the accountant?" They say, "Once a year. I don't even catch up with them. I just send them my summaries and I get my tax return. And that's the maximum relationship I share." But the truth is if you had a healthy relationship, they'd be saying, "Let's sit down properly. Let's look at where all your gaps are. How can we improve a few things? And then let's plan actively for the next tax year." So I feel that's what we try and do differently, which is helping people take a bit more control of their future finances. And I say this all the time. If world war three happens 10 years from now and everything's not worth anything, then nothing matters anyway. Jack Kumar: It reminds me of a interesting joke. Sean Floyd: Yeah. Tell me. Jack Kumar: See in the budgeting, people always get surprised to see that, "Wow, this is where I spend and I can still save that money." Always see that money saving in the end. And then you look at if you keep saving that money over the last 10 years, this much money you would have. But if I'm not spending enough, if there is a buffer on a spreadsheet, where the hell my money is going? So there's a joke there, there's a guy who says, "How much do you drink? Do you drink every day?" He's drinking. And he asks you, "Do you drink?" He said, "Yes." "How much money do you spend on thinking?" And he said, maybe, "50 bucks a day." just for example. Sean Floyd: Wow. Nice. Jack Kumar: So say 50 bucks times a year, 30 days, what is that? 50 times 30 is... Sean Floyd: If you're looking at 50 by, let's say a week. Five days a week, 250. Jack Kumar: Yeah. Sean Floyd: So 250 and you're talking about all the weeks in the year. Jack Kumar: A thousand. Sean Floyd: 50, yeah. Jack Kumar: And then it's what, 12,000? Sean Floyd: Yeah. Upwards of it, I think. Jack Kumar: Yeah. And you've been drinking for almost 10 years, 120. Sean Floyd: 120 grand, ouch. Jack Kumar: And then you've been drinking for 20 years. So 240,000. But even if you're spending $20, 20 years is $120,000. He said, "Mate, if you would have stopped drinking, you could have a nice merc. You would be driving a nice merc today." And that guy listens and listens and he says, "Mate, by the way, do you drink?" He said, "No, I don't drink." He said "Where the hell then your Mercedes?" Sean Floyd: That's right. Jack Kumar: So it's easy to see when we are tracking that I can save. It's easy to say that I can save. But when you do it actually, you are never able to save. The reason is there's a big disease called instant gratification. That is the killer, in 21st century, that is a killer for the future generation. I'll give you an example. I was sitting with one of the client. It was my very early days. And I was sitting in his apartment and they had a newborn baby and they bought one toy for the baby. And then he said, "I like that nice car, toy car, and I bought it two years ago." And he didn't even open that car. I said, "What the hell?" That's instant gratification. He felt like, "Oh, that's a nice toy. I'm getting one. I'll just buy for myself." But you never use it. That's a wastage of money. And then you see people have been consciously trapped in that mindset. How? By giving them the free credit card. Plastic money. Sean Floyd: That's right. Interest-free credit card that they think is free money. Jack Kumar: Yeah. Sean Floyd: It's not. Jack Kumar: It's not and that's a beginning. What they say digging your grave through your own wallet. Sean Floyd: Yeah. And it's like the saying that they have when it's about going broke. You don't go broke out of nowhere. It happens slowly over time. And then suddenly you realize you're broke. Jack Kumar: It's compound, right? Sean Floyd: Yeah. Jack Kumar: Everything is compounded. Either you do well in life... Wherever we are today is because of our small decisions and choices we made in the past. Sean Floyd: That's right. Jack Kumar: Those get compounded and then people say, "You are lucky." or mate, "You are very unlucky. Sorry. Unfortunately it happened to you." But life never happened. It was created step by step and step and step and compounded. When you talk about compounding, my mind goes into the books and you have read the book, The Compound Effect. Sean Floyd: One of my favorite of all time. Jack Kumar: And that's it. What an interesting analogy. If you have a dollar which doubles every day for the next 30 days compared to $3 million, which one would you pick? And when you ask this, most people will say $3 million. What is that? Instant gratification. I want it today. But life never happens today. It is a result of what you've done. So the dollar becomes two and four. And you probably know, how much does it becomes after 30 days? Sean Floyd: Yeah, we did it, it was upwards of 500 million. Jack Kumar: Yeah. $536 million. Whereas, if you take that one, similarly, if you start investing early, if you start budgeting early... See two principals I think I would love to teach my kids is budget and save and invest and make. Budgeting itself won't help. You need to budget and save and what is left, you need to invest and then make. So your money is also working for you. Sean Floyd: Definitely. Definitely. And when you're looking at, for example, the world that has this instant gratification, society that we live in right now, you've got things like not only free credit cards, there's also buy now pay later services, which has taken- Jack Kumar: Oh, that's a next level. Sean Floyd: Yeah. It's the next level, because you see that you're not paying anything extra out of your pocket. But when you look into your pocket... I've got people that are in my circle that are doing very well, that don't tend to use these things. And then I've got people in my circle that aren't doing very well financially that love using these services. What do you think attracts people down that train of thought where it's, "Hey, I know I'm going to get paid a thousand dollars next week and I need to buy this supercomputer." let's say, or this gaming device or whatever, it might be entertainment. "And I'll buy it now because I just have to make four installments or 10 installments. And then I pay no fees out of my pocket." I feel that's just the next level of keeping you in that race, keeping you in that trap. What do you reckon? Jack Kumar: I think deep down, it's a human thing of keeping up with the Joneses. Especially with the social media, people only post those fancy things. I bought this or I did this, I went on holidays. So they feel like they want to do it as well. And the worst part of that is go on holidays and pay later. Sean Floyd: You're sharing last time a story about even someone who had gone on holidays with borrowed money, right? Jack Kumar: That's it. Sean Floyd: That is a bit scary. We've heard stories of people withdrawing their super during COVID and buying Gucci bags and Louis Vuitton. Jack Kumar: Oh my God, it was a shock to me. Mate, why are you killing your future? You're killing your future self and using money just to show off. And that bag, what's the value going to be after 10 years. And no one going to look at you. And you're not going to carry that everyday, maybe on a couple of nice parties, that's it. And I think be wealthy inside out, not outside in. Sean Floyd: That's a good saying. I like that one. Be wealthy inside out, not outside in. Jack Kumar: What I mean is you don't have to show off those things. If you're wealthy, just stay calm. Be inside and enjoy. Have the mental peace. And when you are wealthy outside in, outside you may look glamorous and polished, but inside you're stressed all the time. You know what? I bought that bag but now I have to... I went on holidays. That enjoyment only stays for a small period of time. And after that, you come back from holidays. Now you have to pay for that holiday debt. And I can't imagine living that way. Sean Floyd: That's ridiculous. Jack, I think it's perfect time for a bit of a chocolate break. I love doing these chocolate breaks in the morning and I know you love chocolates same way I do. Jack Kumar: I love my sweets. Sean Floyd: So hang on right there. Here we go. So this episode is not brought to you by Toblerone, but we can enjoy some. Jack Kumar: Thank you. When you put things out, some people think maybe you're advertisements. Sean Floyd: No. I don't think we're getting endorsed by Toblerone any time soon. I did make a joke last time when I had our previous guest on who was James Bernacchi. And I said that the whole episode was brought to us by Gloria Jean's when it clearly wasn't. In talking about financial discipline, instant gratification versus long-term wealth creation, I think there is a time and a place when you can make yourself happy with the wealth that you've created or you can make yourself happy with the resources, but I feel it's always this constant battle of, "Should I do something good with my money or should I enjoy that holiday?" Sean Floyd: And I feel a lot of these decisions end up being based around your social circle and what your social circle is doing. So for example, if you find yourself in a social circle where it's all about picking up, let's say, designer clothing, designer brands, and when a good paycheck comes in or when a bonus comes in, it's all about spending as opposed to investing. I've noticed that there are trends that different social circles enjoy different hobbies. So for example, there are people with expensive hobbies and there are people with inexpensive hobbies. For example, taking a walk along the beach, do you enjoy that? Jack Kumar: I love that. Sean Floyd: And how much does it cost you? Jack Kumar: Not a penny. And that's the most enjoyable thing I ever have. Sean Floyd: Really? Jack Kumar: Getting up in the morning, going for a walk on the beach, close by water. I was telling you the other day that it doesn't matter how hard you have worked during the day or on the weekend. You just go for that water, look at the water, you're energized. I think we were talking about something that what's the reason behind it? And we were saying we have 70% body is water. So that's why maybe it's a relaxing. Sean Floyd: And all of our civilizations are built around water as well. Jack Kumar: Yeah. Sean Floyd: Maybe for the tranquility element. Jack Kumar: Yes. So it's a very good point, enjoyment, the happiness. Fake happiness can be there because the materialistic happiness can give you happiness only a short period of time, because there's always something to look for more. But these type of happiness doesn't cost you anything. And I was giving an example to one of my family. They want to live a nice life, but they give excuse of not having money to spend quality time with kids. And I said, "No, that's not right." Because going to park and spending time in the park with kids doesn't cost you anything. Going on a beach with the kids doesn't cost you anything. Playing a game with kids... I play Uno with my kids, and it doesn't cost anything. Sean Floyd: Yeah. Apart from the acquisition cost of, for example, getting to the beach, driving there. And buying the Uno cards, which is what, two bucks? Jack Kumar: Yeah. But we come with those high- Sean Floyd: Excuses. Jack Kumar: ... excuses. What I'm trying to say here is you can still live a great life and you can still build a future. Sean Floyd: Yeah. Do you feel people are conditioned that if there's people out there that are doing well, having success in either business or investments, do you feel that society or the media, maybe, has conditioned people to think that they're doing something wrong, that's the reason that they're successful and the majority of people are just stuck working? Do you feel there's a bit of a part of that going on? A lot of people have this tall poppy syndrome in Australia. Someone's doing really well, let's tear them right down. Jack Kumar: Yes. I think this is social pressure. And I can give you an example which is not related to money but it's still socially awkward, people will say. I went for a meditation retreat. And some people thought I'm going to turn into a monk. Or when you say, "I spend 10 minutes with kids doing the meditation." people think that's not normal. And I was having a chat with one of the other meditator saying, "Why don't you think this should be a skill taught in schools? Why they don't teach it?" People think meditation is voodoo thing. Sean Floyd: Voodoo stuff. Jack Kumar: Voodoo stuff, but actually it is a... Now I'm going deeper, I'll connect that with the money part soon. A thing about going deeper level and this is a mental exercise. That means you are living in present. When each off instant gratification hits, you don't have a mental tool to stop it. So if you can connect, if you are living in that present and if that itch... I'm connecting here to instant gratification, but could be anything, your anger. But if you are getting upset, you can realize that my mind is taking me into a thought which is going to take me upset so how can I bring it back? It's just a tool to exercise. Same thing, that tool can be used when you are going on shopping or when you feel like "I want to have that." And if you have that mental strength, that exercise, if you're doing that, then you can say, "No, that's a temporary thing. Let's step back." Jack Kumar: And a lot of the times, once you come out of the shopping center and you forget about it, you don't even crave about it. It's just in that moment. And if you control that, then that tool can help you to budget and stick to the budget which you have created. The problem is not the budgeting. Some people have done the budgeting and then when you catch up with them after a year- Sean Floyd: They still felt like they had to have that car at that time and just go crazy and purchase it. Maybe because they didn't control that 10 minutes. Jack Kumar: 10 minutes, yes. So that exercise actually helped. Sean Floyd: Makes sense. And when people are talking about social pressure as well, it's interesting that you mentioned that. I think slowly, what I have noticed over the last 10 years specifically, is there's more of a social pressure to have things, have material items, but slightly less of a social pressure to become successful. It's almost like a paradox. We want to have the nice things like the fancy clothes, fancy car, but slowly I felt that there is a bit of a pressure saying that if you're going out there and if you're being successful, if you're doing really well, that's not life or that's not what you need to be doing. So people are happy being in this important zone, which is actually a very deadly zone called the comfort zone. Sean Floyd: And I feel sometimes subconsciously people try and pull you back once you start exceeding and going outside your comfort zone. Have you seen people in your own circle telling you to slow down, you've already done something, you've already achieved it, now just enjoy the rest of your life? I'm sure you would have had people that you used to associate with 10 years ago that maybe are in the same position that they were. And then you've got people that you're meeting with and collaborating with that are new, but you're still going to the next level. Because I know your growth minded, but how do you feel society's pressure is for the other group? Jack Kumar: I think one of the advice I got in early stage that has really helped me is the books you read and the people you read will change your life. So if you read the right books and if you surround yourself with the right people, they'll pull you up. But even if you read different books, watch different things and then you surround yourself with the people, your life will be attracted towards that. It works either way. So I always thought that I have to read those books, wisdom, and then I have to be surrounded with those people who are like-minded. And sometimes in the beginning of my career, it was very hard to find someone like-minded because when you are living in [inaudible 00:30:52], you are surrounded with those types of people. There is no choice. So at that time, I made a conscious decision that where can I find those people? Jack Kumar: And I started going to a lot of seminars and connecting with those people. If I'm not connecting, at least I'm mentally listening to the speaker and learning the stuff and at least, my inner world, I have made my own friends. Because I see that as a challenge because in the beginning, people say it's easy for you because you have that network now or you talk to those like-minded people but in the beginning, it's challenging, I get that. So in the beginning, you need to create your own friends or habits. Reading books and surrounded with those people which you cannot afford to become friends with them, but at least you can go and listen to them. Sean Floyd: Definitely. And because we've got the internet today, we can choose pretty much to listen to podcasts while we drive, we can just listen to audio books about, money, money management, what to do and funnily enough, how to invest as well. Which is good but still people get attracted to listening to music instead while they drive. That's the easier pick. Jack Kumar: Music or if you talk about yes, everything's available online. YouTube got lots of wisdom and YouTube got lots of crap. So it's not again that the tools are not there, tools are there. But you will only listen to or you will only be attracted to listening to what you to listen to is how you are trained subconsciously. We human beings love gossips. And when there is radio talk going on or YouTube, all the crap news about an argument that might have no relationship in your life- Sean Floyd: Like Trump and Biden, for example. Jack Kumar: ... but you are excited to know what they are doing. And then after that, the hype is over, you come to the next topic and that's it. Sean Floyd: I'll share something really interesting with you. And this for everyone maybe watching at home or watching in the car or wherever you find us. I would encourage you to take your phone and this is for everyone, by the way. Take your phone and type it on the search bar on YouTube and look at your last 10 searches. Where you are today, heavily a product is of what is the result of those last 10 searches. People at home will be shocked that, "Oh my goodness, I am where I am because of what my content has been." And it might surprise you, but it works every single time. I've tried it with some friends. They take a step back because they look at saying, "Yeah, I know, I wanted to know about that because of this reason." or "I wanted to know about that because of another reason. But I didn't think that's where my life was heading." Sean Floyd: So you'll be able to see that if you're interested in entertainment, you'll just be entertained, but you'll stay in the same spot. If you're interested in progress, you'll realize that what are those things that you've done towards progress or learning or achievement? And it's not all about the money, but I feel it's more about the growth side of things. It's about making progress and informed decisions, which is half as more fulfilling as just the money component. Jack Kumar: It's interesting what you said, last 10 searches. But more interesting to that is like attracts likes. What it means on YouTube or in Google, basically what you search, they'll show you the same content. Sean Floyd: Exactly. Jack Kumar: So you go from that content to that content to that content into the deeper shit. Whereas if you read, listening to same thing, like attracts like, on good books or a good motivational speech or good stories which inspires you, then YouTube and Google, they start showing you what you are interested in. It's like that's a perfect example of we attract who we are. Sean Floyd: Yeah. And like attracts like even in the digital sense now. Because they want to target you and they want to sell you. Got to keep selling. But that's interesting. Is there anything you'd like to share with people out there to help them find a new source of motivation? We've got 2020s behind everyone now. But that being said, 2021 is a very exciting year. Economy's in a full, rapid kickstart, a lot of great things going on. There are going to be people that wait on the sidelines, as always. And there are going to be people that actually do it, not thinkers, actual doers. So they sit down, put the budget down, say, "This year, I'm going to achieve X, Y, and Z." For the people that are on the fence, what would you say to them to just tip over to the greener side? Jack Kumar: In my seminars, I talk about the five Ds. And I want to leave everyone with this one D. And that D can be implemented in anything. In budgeting or budgeting your psychology. If you're in the middle of the fence, I would say that's a third D of the five Ds. It's delete. Delete your bad habits. If you're a procrastination, delete it. If you're analysis paralysis person, delete it. Know enough to make a decision, but don't get lost in that analysis paralysis. If you do the budgeting and you see there are other things which you're not supposed to do, or spend less outside, or whatever your financial situation may be, delete it. Delete the content which you've been searching which is keeping you where you are today. That YouTube search you talked about, delete it. So my advice to everyone is delete those bad habits, delete the bad debts. Or put a strategy to what I can do now so I start deleting my bad debts. Sean Floyd: Yeah. That's fantastic. That's awesome. And I want to hear more about the other four Ds during the other podcast that we have in the future. But I think we've taken enough time this morning. Jack Kumar: Thank you. Sean Floyd: It's been absolutely fun. I hope you had some fun as well. Jack Kumar: Absolutely. I love having these chats. It's a very conversational and I just share what's in my heart. Sean Floyd: And that's what we want. I feel people need a source from people that have been there, done that and have experienced the good and the bad so that they can always make the choice for themselves. You can always lead a horse to water, but you can't make everyone do what you would want them to do. But this has been fun. I'm excited for 2021. And I'm excited to have you on all over again, Jack. Jack Kumar: Yes. I'm excited not only '21, 202050. Sean Floyd: 202050? Jack Kumar: 2050. Sean Floyd: Okay. I'd be very excited for 202050 as well. I won't be here physically. Maybe I might be. You never know. Jack Kumar: You never know, but every day is excitement actually. I don't want to think that it's 2021 because that's another excuse which we always say this year I haven't done anything, but next year I'll do it. Again, it's a nicer way of procrastination. Sean Floyd: That's right. And you realize this. When people head towards the end of the year, their brain switches off, their activity switch off. They just want to enjoy. And it's always the new year resolution. But I think that's a topic for a different day because we've got motivation lined up. We've got manifestation lined up as well. But apart from that, I think today was fun. Jack Kumar: Also we'll talk about other Ds. Sean Floyd: Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much, Jack. Jack Kumar: Thank you, Sean. Sean Floyd: Let's get back into it. Jack Kumar: Yes. Awesome. Sean Floyd: Rock and roll. Jack Kumar: Cheers. Sean Floyd: Cheers, guys.